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<what we might consider trolling to be, not someone yelling fuck all yall, its about fuzzing people. you press a button to discover if something is random or systematic (to understand the system). <understand how people function. nonobvious, nontrivial. baiting not to see the typical response (ignoring) but atypical. social resource by ignoring ethics. people build walls for ethical and legitmate reasons, but it limits the abilitz to have a complex understanding of the world. anthesis of. we’re not all psychopaths like weev. we also become very accepting of other viewpoints. view meeting someone as receiving new data, not about the contents but rather on the structure. predictive analysis on how things are phrased. have stopped caring what other people believe. still get interesting things out of it.

mechanisms in place. trolls pretend to be mulitple people, fake industries if you need to. changing environment. forcing someone else into a situation in which they are thinking in reaction to your terms.

trolling is different from psyops. non violent activism maps really well onto trolling. the line is in NOT actually going for affecting people.

but trolling has become a way to excuse harassment. society does change the meaning of words.

relating trolling to drawing a stage where you cant leave the stage until find some commonality.

is there success? finding more things.

assumptions that everyone can walk away. SWATing. aggressive version of ordering 19 pizzas to someones house. what if i used gamergate tag to put someone in public opinion?

aggressive arguments. continuing to attack from perspectives to put a chink in armor. true answers to ‚how are you doing?‘

point things out via compliments. people dont talk about things unless there is a reason, often contention.

so for a healthy culture which involves trolling, do we also need a healthy culture of bringing up good things? ideas as external to you, versus self-defense.

what is happening in this room versus what is happening in the non violence discussion. trolling as not give any information about zourself, versus nonviolence where you give info about zourself in order to reach common ground.

trolling across countries and jurisdictions. americans can saz WHATEVER WE WANT. we ban hate speech when it inspires violent behavior. us allows for kkk speech, but germany has banned nazi-ism.

the benefits of trolling are about constructs being formed that wouldnt otherwise. signalling so as to get information back to build a model. not so much about tree shaking, but information with resjponse that improves a model. pursuit of education. in a weird yes, but you are expanding your own understanding. people remember being pissed off.

anger is a legitimate response, however it doesnt help you achieve your goals. rational response is what does. atypical is where things change. not just random, burn utility. indicate weakness, as a way of not getting what we want, but as a way of predicatable but not logical. pre-rational, not ‚emotional‘

we suck at critiquing each other, need more vectors for this.

1984, writing as Winston being the bad guy and the state being the good guy. merit to exploring how wrong your echo chamber might be. taking teh other side in a debate. if someone says ‚stop‘ and then continues to be badgered, it#s not healthy trolling what if the other party is at close to catharsis? keep going? is that arrogant or are you acting in the person’s betterment?

how is your community for portrayed to a disagreeing incomer?

overlap between this room and the other is #tell me more#

edge play - very edge of what is acceptable. people who have opted into 48 hours of being political prisoners. consenting to be a completely different person on the other side.

examples of trolling working for #good# ends? the nazi march, someone spends money for an anti-nazi campaign. noisebridge clown science fair mein kamf copzright owned by jewish childrens stories church of satan having a statue with insurance that if destrozed it will be replaced bz TWO